Cont "VC Island" story Pictures by John Bullock

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Niner Alpha
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Cont "VC Island" story Pictures by John Bullock

Postby Niner Alpha » Wed Mar 05, 2003 4:23 pm

This is a continuation of the "Island" story that was taken up in the RTO ...Cambodia post.

These are John Bullock's pictures on the second trip to the Island. Two are taken from the village side with the rice paddy. The other looks to have been taken from the reed side.
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24534982_G.jpg
24534992_G.jpg
24535038_G.jpg
Last edited by Niner Alpha on Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cont "VC Island" story Pictures by John Bulloc

Postby Niner Alpha » Wed Mar 05, 2003 10:25 pm

In the top picture can be seen the outline of the island. On the first trip some of us went in from the right end of the island as seen in the picture. The stay behind and a few other of us made it through the mines and booby traps to the end of the island which would be out of the picture to the left. That left end is where the stay behind was left.

At the time of John's picture we had the island surrounded on all sides. The opposite side of the island from the paddy picture was all reeds and swamp. The bangalor picture must have been taken from the swamp side or maybe at one of the ends of the island.

If you are coming to this backward, a link back will take you to the string and the story begins about half way down in the string:

Where this story began. http://6thofthe31st.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=230
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Found the actual location

Postby Niner Alpha » Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:32 pm

Looking through some old letters I had sent my parents that I hadn't seen since I wrote them in 1970.

One letter mentions this place as I had sent my folks a copy of a map home. Anybody that has a map can find it at 502116.
That's roughly, 12,000 meters West of Cu Chi and at max arty support range, 9,000 meters SE of FSB Jackson.

Oh, by the way, if you follow the link to the first post you will see where a famous 6/31st site webmaster came into the 6/31st loop.
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502115

Postby pointman » Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:13 am

How is location 502112 defined? Is that something you could translate in degrees, minutes, seconds latitude/longiturde.? Like
10 degrees 47' 23.52 N 106 degrees 11' 2.75 E [the tip of Parrot's Beak]

I use Google Earth, which displays lat/long at the bottom. Would like to try and find it.

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It's a military map

Postby Niner Alpha » Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:32 am

John, it's from the military map. Read left to right then up. Didn't I send you a copy of the map I sent home? I can send you a copy with the spot marked. Watch your email.
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map

Postby pointman » Sun Oct 08, 2006 11:09 am

Think you did, have been looking for it but not located yet.

Rarely looked at a map in those days, seldom knew where I was, unless I could see the Black Virgin. Guess I wasn't on a need to know.

Do the military maps include lat/long? I thought the military used their own system.

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I'll gladly send you another copy if you like

Postby Niner Alpha » Sun Oct 08, 2006 11:16 am

Don't have a clue how the military numbers square with the civilian world.
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Maybe this will help

Postby Niner Alpha » Sun Oct 08, 2006 12:22 pm

See the numbers running up the page to the right side. Look between the 11 and 12. See that little red smudge. Thats about the place, give or take a hundred meters.
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ScanImage001.jpg
testmap2.jpg
The complete map. The section to top right contains the "island"
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Map

Postby pointman » Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:27 pm

Map looks worn.... Must have got some use.

Have to look into translating army to lat/long sometime. Playing around with Google Earth this p.m., located Nui Ba Den:
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The only map use was for show and tell

Postby Niner Alpha » Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:53 pm

Mike Kirby gave it to me in Vietnam. It was half scale and too small for use in the field. I had torn it into four pieces to send home with some of the locations already marked. In later years when I wanted to send someone a copy I found it easier to cut into more pieces before scanning on the copy machine.

By the way, Tra Cu was in that ball point pen circle in the bottom half of the map section. Hadn't marked it when I sent the map home. Northwest of Gettysburg in the map section attachment.

I've used that Google Earth too. I've used it to scan photos to link up fishing trips that I could down load a gps saved trip on top of by knowing two exact locations. Actually my younger brother did it for me with a program he has. Here is an example of a gps overlay.
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Map5.jpg
TheodoreInd.jpg
GPS overlay on Google Earth.
Last edited by Niner Alpha on Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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the interesting part of this story

Postby Niner Alpha » Sun Dec 17, 2006 11:47 pm

The more interesting part of this story is in a previous post, where it started out not about the "island" at all. This just shows the kind of memory associations that can happen..... long after we, as individuals, figured nobody , but nobody, remembers any of this but ourselves

But why would we think that?

The actual start of this thing is here:.

http://6thofthe31st.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=230
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From Google Earth

Postby Niner Alpha » Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:14 pm

Talked to Clay Hall today. He remembers the first trip very well. Thought I'd transplant the goole earth picture I posted elsewhere of the location as can be found today on the internet. Thanks to John Bullock for the instructions how.
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Island2.jpg
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VC Island

Postby pointman » Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:54 am

Just noticed on the time line that we were at VC Island 40 years ago yesterday. Didn't remember both Tiger Scouts getting wounded but just one, though that's what I wrote in a letter home. Also Hildebrant and McCoy.

Oddly, I woke up last night and went to the bathroom, and as I was trying to get back to sleep, started thinking about the Air Cushioned vehicles, for no particular reason. Must have been my mind telling me it was the day they came along and pulled our butts out. Weird.
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Re: Cont "VC Island" story Pictures by John Bullock

Postby Niner Alpha » Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:55 pm

Was that the wound that made Mun call it quits? Maybe not officially, but as a matter of what was going on in his mind. He had just had enough.

Photos from Mirl Hollabaugh's album in 1969... the year before.
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Mun2.jpg
Moon.jpg
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Re: Cont "VC Island" story Pictures by John Bullock

Postby pointman » Tue Jun 22, 2010 3:34 pm

Mun was with Hildebrand and McCoy in one position, and they all had shrapnel wounds from the grenades tossed at them. May have been someone else there also, but I don't recall. Remembering vaguely, they were closer to getting overrun than us, and we were firing 79's in close to them, so I wouldn't discount that some of our fragments were landing on them also. McCoy told me later not to worry about it, that our close fire may have helped keep them from being overrun.

Sometime after that grenades started landing near us. Our position was the first to fire, got one. E went out and finished him off. Lt Hall told E to go take him prisoner, but E shot him and came back and told Hall he wouldn't surrender.

The Tiger E was with us, along with Lt Hall, Sgt Burrell, and someone else. I don't remember E getting hurt, but may be.

The chopper that picked them up dipped its tail too close to the ground and damaged the tail rotor. The pilot thought it looked alright so took off, running low as I recall. Somewhere after the chopper left us, the tail rotor quit, and it went in spinning. None of our guys were hurt much worse, but I recall the pilot may have hurt his legs. Must have nosed going down.

I don't remember Mun being that hurt, but mind is foggy at best anymore.

I read of a study recently that found when you remember something, your mind actually pulls it from memory and then refiles it back anew, so it is easy for it to get changed or part of it deleted. Sort of like recording it back over the same tape. Guess over the years when I thought about it, I put less and less back.
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Re: Cont "VC Island" story Pictures by John Bullock

Postby Niner Alpha » Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:57 pm

I read of a study recently that found when you remember something, your mind actually pulls it from memory and then refiles it back anew, so it is easy for it to get changed or part of it deleted. Sort of like recording it back over the same tape.


I remember seeing on TV or on the internet, or some place, that very thought recently. Can't remember where now. But like you I sense truth in the notion that every time we recall memories, without being aware of it, we must sometimes lose stuff and add stuff as we put it back away from our concious minds....... and when we talk to other people about memories we share we are adding and subtracting things...not dramatic subtractions and additions, but subtle ones. Twilight Zone stuff...but I must have seen the same thing you did, but can't remember where now. Wasn't long ago either.
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Re: Cont "VC Island" story Pictures by John Bullock

Postby pointman » Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:32 pm

Wherever I read it, said there was use for it in dealing with such things as post-traumatic stress disorder. They were taking someone's memory, and deliberately getting them to re-write it back in a gentler version.
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Re: Cont "VC Island" story Pictures by John Bullock

Postby SgtMike » Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:10 am

Hi guys, The second trip to V C Island was the last time I was ever in the field. Lavazzi grounded me. I was put in charge of TOC, about a month earlier and had been in country say maybe 15 months???? Any way I was setting charges and blowing things up... When Lavazzi came on scene. He orders me out of the field with the statement "you are grounded you have too much time in country and I won't have it. Besides your extension job was for NCOIC TOC. That I believe was 40 years ago this month??? Not sure?
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Re: Cont "VC Island" story Pictures by John Bullock

Postby Niner Alpha » Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:05 am

Mike, Captain Olsen was the CO during what John and I are thinking of as VC island..first and last trips. You must be thinking of some other operation that was like it. When "VC Island" came along you were already operations sgt from sometime before Cambodia. When the first trip happened you were back at Ben Luc forwarding stuff to us and whatever else your duties were. We were operating out of FSB Jackson, which by the way, we later helped demolish. You were on hand at Jackson as Op Sgt. the time of the second trip to VC Island.

Lavazzi got you out of the bush and what you are talking about really happened in my memory as well...just different operation and earlier than the one we are talking about here. I remember you taking up the operations slot from Jim Tierney. Think it must have been sometime about April of 1970? Could that be right? Jim probably remembers.

When the first trip happened to "VC Island"...the one that John remembers being a member of the stay behind... Captain Olsen, that night , had gone back to Ben Luc because a man with a name something like "Creekmore", already busted to E nothing for refusing to go to the field and assorted other things, had got into some kind of trouble and Olsen was called back to sort it out. You would have been at Ben Luc at that time.

How can I remember all this crap? Or maybe it's all part of something I'm imagining as senility closes in on me. :shock:

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