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Original 31st Regiment silver cup

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 3:11 pm
by Niner Alpha
I got this email to me as the site administrator this morning:

Hello. I purchased what I have now discovered to be an original
Shanghai Cup. It's engraved "1st LT William F. Ashby, CO. A 31st
Infantry". May I ask if the 31st would be interested in purchasing it?
Thank you.
Julie Jacobs


I passed this on to the Regiment Association chief advisor.. Col. Corson. Then got this follow up:

Thank you for your kind response, Robert. My first choice is for it to go to the 31st where it belongs. If I could, I'd donate it but I'm on a fixed income and need the money. Before contacting you, I was considering putting it up for auction on eBay to see what the market would price it at. I guess I'll ask you what it is worth to the organization? What can you offer?

Thank you. And
All the best,
Julie


And then this:

Excellent, Robert. Thank you! I look forward to hearing from colonel Corson.
I purchased the cup from a private silver antique dealer/collector. When I
initially researched the piece online, I found a confederate soldier by the
same name who was from the Shenandoah Valley, Virginia and fought under Lee.
I thought it dated to that era. Fun to think about two men of different
wars sharing names and displaying such heroism. Anyway, further research
led me to discover the 31st site and the REAL STORY.

Re: Original 31st Regiment silver cup

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 5:38 pm
by Niner Delta
I wonder how much he would sell it for???? I'm always looking for interesting items....... :D

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Re: Original 31st Regiment silver cup

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:05 pm
by Niner Alpha
I'll send you the email, Vern. Make "her" an offer.

Re: Original 31st Regiment silver cup

Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:37 am
by Ron
Hey Robert,
Now that's something of military history that's up for grabs! Will be interesting to see what the final sale price of the cup went for. It's authenticity should 1st be checked out as copies and frauds these days can cost you! It's past history as to who, where & how became an antique dealer's item should be looked into as well. With the amount of money the Regiment's assoc. I'm surprised they haven't jumped at this too!

Re: Original 31st Regiment silver cup

Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:20 pm
by Niner Alpha
The 100 that the Association had made are marked as reproductions on the bottom in 2007. Looks like they didn't sell like hot cakes because it looks like they still have some for sale in 2016 judging by the last newsletter.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1715&p=3857&hilit=Shanghai+bowl#p3857

Here's some more of the history taken from a publication of the 9th in Vietnam.

The years passed peacefully for the "Polar Bears" until 1932, when they were sent to Shanghai to protect the lives and property of United States citizens during the Shanghai Incident. For this action members of the 31st Infantry won the only battle award given to an Army unit during peacetime--The Yangtze Service Medal.

During the Shanghai Incident, the 31st Infantry was presented with the "Shaghai Bowl", an artifact which was later to play an important part in the proud heritage of the 31st Infantry. The Shaghai Bowl, which was made from 1500 Chinese Silver Dollars, was officially presented to the 31st Infantry at Fort MacKinley near Manila on 5 July, 1932.

The 31st Infantry, returning to Manila later in 1932, could not know that within nine years it would be in mortal conflict with a new enemy. It formed the nucleus of the first force committed against the Japanese invasion of the Phillippines. On Bataan, the 31st Infantry faced its supreme test, fighting until it was decimated. When it was apparent that surrender of Corregidor was inevitable, the Coros and Battle Streamers were destroyed and the Shanghai Bowl was buried in the rocky soil. The valiant survivors of the 31st Infantry took part in the infamous "Death March". For the gallant action of the 31st Infantry, the unit was awarded three Distinguished Unit Citations, one each for the defense of Luzon, Bataan and the Phillippines.


viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31&p=88&hilit=Shanghai+bowl#p88


The 31st Regiment Association history of the bowl:

http://www.31stinfantry.org/history/the ... /recovery/

Re: Original 31st Regiment silver cup

Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:24 pm
by Niner Alpha
I know one person who made an offer and it was turned down. It wasn't me. I wouldn't have offered as much as he did if I had made an offer. Value of anything is only what one person will pay and what the owner will accept. Stay tuned for more of this story... or not....depending on if I get more information or if anybody else does and posts it.

I have no idea if the Association has any serious interest in it or not or if they will make an offer for it.

Re: Original 31st Regiment silver cup

Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:54 am
by Niner Alpha
The Regiment Association didn't want it. The 4/31st didn't answer the ladies email. It is now on the open market. So much for Regiment sentiment for the punch bowl stuff. :lol:

Re: Original 31st Regiment silver cup

Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:16 pm
by Niner Delta
The cup just sold on ebay for $178.50 + shipping, which was $100 more than my bid. She told me in an
email that since the reproduction cups were $165, this cup should be worth "some multiples of that amount."
Well, it did sell for $13.50 more than a repro............... :mrgreen:
I'm sure she is disappointed, but I got a very greedy feeling from her emails....whatever. Case closed.



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Re: Original 31st Regiment silver cup

Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:07 pm
by Niner Alpha
I'd say it wasn't anybody connected to the 31st Regiment who bought it judging by his past bid win history.

The winner buys a lot of SammeLn & Seltenes, which is German for Toys and Hobbies... according to the translation thing.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111906161621

Re: Original 31st Regiment silver cup

Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:36 am
by Niner Alpha
Got this from Julie:

Good morning, Robert!! I hope you are enjoying your day!



As you may have seen, the Shanghai cup sold last night for $178.50 (after getting over 500 views) to a Chinese buyer and is going back to Shanghai. End of its story with me.



Let me thank you again for how helpful you were in determining what it was in the first place and in disqualifying the 31st infantry’s interest in it as well.



Hoping our paths cross again someday - until then, take good care of yourself!!



Wishing you and yours,

All the best,

Julie


My response:

Thanks for the information Julie. I was watching. I hope the result was profitable to you. I'm really disappointed that the Regiment Association wasn't interested in it.

I think a lot of guys , like myself, who served in Vietnam in battalions that bore the 31st denominator, had experienced no personal connection to the former regiment system and accordingly weren't feeling any strong attraction. However, the Association has a bowl ceremony every reunion and one year one of the original cups went missing at an event and the "commander" made a big embarrassing moment out of it until it was discovered there was a miscount and the missing cup was still in the packing crate.

Re: Original 31st Regiment silver cup

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 10:27 am
by Niner Alpha
It's back. The Chinese guy thinks he is going to make some money.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1932-HISTORIC-R ... 2386954420?

Re: Original 31st Regiment silver cup

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 2:50 pm
by Niner Delta
Those even look like the same photos from the first ebay auction...... :roll:
Will keep an eye on it, just out of curiosity........ :mrgreen:



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Re: Original 31st Regiment silver cup

Posted: Thu May 19, 2016 9:08 am
by Niner Alpha
$165.78 is what it sold for this time plus $10 Chinese mail. The speculator lost money. Wonder what it'll bring next time?

Re: Original 31st Regiment silver cup

Posted: Thu May 19, 2016 2:41 pm
by Niner Delta
A few more auction losses like that and I will be able to afford it........... :mrgreen:

And it has also been known to happen that the seller has a friend bid at the beginning of the auction
the amount that the seller needs. Then if it doesn't reach that amount, the seller is only out the auction
fee and doesn't lose a lot of money and the friend never really pays for it....... :roll:
The winning bidder made the highest bid near the beginning of the auction....... 8)



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Re: Original 31st Regiment silver cup

Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:59 pm
by Niner Alpha
I made this contact at the US militaria site. He has some 1941 31st Regiment memorabilia that included the names of officers. This was just before WWII. I asked him if he saw an Ashby named in it. He said no but he did an Ancestry search and found :

He wasn't with the 31st Regt. in August 1941 just before the Japs invaded the Philippines. I did a quick search on Ancestry and saw a William F. Ashby listed as a cadet starting in July 42 and as 2nd LT of Infantry in 46. He may have served with the Polar Bears when the Regt. was reorganized/activated for the Korean War. Hope this helps...



John Bear


Now this would lead me to believe the original cups that were made before the war and the ones made a few years ago weren't the only ones. More cups must have been made in at least a second batch. Interesting...but not likely to be investigated further by anyone. I'd say it's fairly certain nobody with the 6/31st in Vietnam ever had any made and few ever had any knowledge of the Regiment or it's history while serving. And... it leads me to wonder if all the cups the Association trots out at reunions are all pre WWII? Could at least some of them be from a later post war batch?

Re: Original 31st Regiment silver cup

Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:59 am
by Niner Alpha
And the story continues.

John Bear, my research contact, gave me some more information. His interest is in his uncle who died imprisoned by the Japanese after the fall of Bataan. By the way, he recently got his uncle's unawarded medals issued and is working on getting his CIB. I made some suggestions and gave him emails to some of the Association officers who could maybe put him in touch with any remaining WWII vets still living who my remember his uncle..


Ashby went to West Point. He was in the army at the time of the Korean war. He is listed as a "casualty" in March of 1950. The Korean War hadn't started just yet. At that time the 31st was in occupied Japan and not in any combat. Obviously whatever the reason for being on the list it didn't kill him. He lived well into the 21st Century before his death.

So... the cup is very much attached to a real officer. When it was made is anybodies guess.

His resting place.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cg ... p;ref=acom