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Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 2:21 am
Don Varenhorst, Echo 69, remembered the capture from time to time of bolt action "CKC" rifles. He remembers them as being straight bolt handle rifles. In the Milsurp rifle collecting community the term "CKC" is not clear. But Don is right in that other reports of an official nature mention the capture of CKC rifles. I tend to think they must have been Chinese Mausers of one sort or the other. Don remembers "Czech" being a discription. This could have well been as the Czechs made some Mauser's of the VZ24 kind for China. The Chinese also copied it. Anybody have something they can add to make this issue clearer? Anybody have a "CKC" bring back and can tell me more about what this rifle is?
Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 6:11 pm
I searched some data and found that "CKC" is the factory code for Mausers made at: Deutsche Eisenwerke AG, Muehlheim, Ruhr, Germany. I can't determine exports to China or SE Asia. The receiver would have CKC, a unique foundry stamp/symbol, and year made. Photo looks pretty much like others I've seen.
Re: CKC Mauser
Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 11:12 pm
Thanks Delta56. But that code is a WWII factory code. Somehow don't think that is the answer. WWII rifles from the same factory wouldn't be circulated in any numbers in SE Asia over 20 years after the war. Thanks for giving it a shot though.
Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 5:21 pm
Dang, thought I'd won the lollipop!!
Re: CKC response
Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 7:35 pm
Just for the heck of it, here are pictures of the VZ24 standard rifle and a K98K together. The K98K would have been made during WWII in Germany. The VZ24 made by the Czech's underwent some changes after 1939 under German control and eventully the Brno plant started making K98K's in 1942. The VZ24 on the top has a straight bolt handle. although some did have bent handles, and the K98K shown under it has a bent bolt handle as a matter of course. The K98K didn't have a top hand guard from the ring to the back sight while the vz24 did.
The Chinese contracted vz24's in the 1930's, about 24,000 of them. However China made the Chaing Kai-Shek model in the millions that was a copy. The one's I have seen pictures of look like a cross between the VZ24 and the K98K. Straight bolt handle. No top hand guard. But finger groove in the side of the stock under the sight. There are some other variations too.
Robert Ball's Mauser Military Rifles shows the CKC which was made and used by China and looks very much like the VZ24 it is copied from. This is a picture from his book.
CKC rifle question
Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:27 pm
I, too, have tried to figure out what the CKC rifle actually was. I held several in my hands, but never really examined one to determine 'what it was. I have come to the conclusion that it was the Mosin Nagant M44 (also called the ChiCom Type 53).
Pictures of it sure seem to resemble the images in my memory...
Is THIS worth a lollipop?
Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 7:46 pm
I don't recall any weapon called a CKC but I remember a lot of SKS rifles. Seems in my faded memory that they to were bolt action. Thought I'd throw my useless 2 cents in.
Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:27 pm
Montana here are a VZ24... like the Chinese rifle and a Mosin Nagant M44. The M44 is shorter and has a bayonet attached. Not very alike. Glad you posted though. Please come back and post again.
Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:36 pm
Rick, the SKS was one step before the fully auto AK47 in Russian rifle developement. It did shoot semi-automatic from a 10 round self-contained magazine. It shot the same ammo as the AK47... 7.62x39, which was an intermediate round. The M44 Nagant shot a full load rifle round in 7.62x54r.
M44 and Russian made SKS.
Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:10 pm
Thanks for the invite to return, but you may not have much need of information from an Air Force electronics weenie.<br>
My claim to fame is the fact that I spent most of my time on top of Nui Ba Den mountain.
Yep, I can see the difference, Niner, but the shape of the magazine on the Mosin Nagant is the part (I think) I remember.
We picked up one rifle (which we called a CKC) which had that magazine, was a good shooter, and had a scope mounted.
Being a fair rifle shot, I used to borrow it from the guy that 'owned' it...and carry it out to my little 'observation post'. With glasses, I would watch Nui Heo (a little 'knob' that we suspected Charlie of using to watch us) and wait for someone to show.
None ever did, but I felt the piece was good enough to hit a man-sized target at that range.
I had plenty of opportunity to look that rifle over, but never really did. I just peered through the binoculars until my eyes got tired...or I got hungry.
Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:38 pm
Nui Ba Den Is a place most of us remember, if only for seeing it on the horizon from any place in the Plain of Reeds. Your comments are welcome any time.
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:43 am
Hi while browsing your site I came across this page. I checked google images and came up with this picture that claims to be a CKC rifle, which seems to be a Mosin copy of some sort.
I think the sites in Russian?
I also found this link where a Vietnamese man is discussing the CKC rifle:
But just to muddy the waters I also found this transcript of a mission performed by the PAVN. Note the Translator's note 14 at the bottom.
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 9:26 am
But the picture you are showing is a Mosin Nagant, model 91/30. The picture you link refers to the SKS as a CKC. I think whatever the CKC is, it will have to be a bolt action rifle. However, reading the first discription you link , to paraphrase, "like an SKS but longer and shooting a bigger round", maybe the poster is talking about a Dragunov SVD? But from what I read in this the poster himself was a child and it was his dad who was the prisoner. So... don't know what to make of this.